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Cadet Classes for Spring
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Craig Logsdon
Posted 2012-12-20 3:34 PM (#15925)
Subject: Cadet Classes for Spring




Posts: 14
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Is the club endorsing a specific cadet class, or is it going to be another free-for-all? I think the past season has proven that the idea of having the drivers get together and pick what they want to drive that week is not a good way to grow the cadets. I think the club would be better served by having certainty.

Please note I'm not trying to create a Rotax debate. I understand there's a dedicated group of micromax drivers in the Bondurant series. But there are drivers who are too old for that class, and others who do not have Rotax engines.
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Chris England
Posted 2012-12-21 5:22 PM (#15927 - in reply to #15925)
Subject: RE: Cadet Classes for Spring


Past PKRA Vice President

Posts: 259
1001002525
Fundamentaly, is PKRA an IKF rules track or now overly influenced by other non IKF classes.

If PKRA is going to be an IKF track , then why go away from all the IKF classes.

The prior thinking seemed to be that racers could move to IKF events in the same classes if they chose to
move beyond club racing.

Also, the local motor building community has all but vanished as a result of these changes.

I'm only pondering the changes and have no personal ax to grind as my boys are both racing TAG SR
(now a non-existiant class at PKRA)

As always , I am a big supporter of what is best for PKRA

Member thoughts ??
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Veerachart Murphy
Posted 2012-12-23 7:30 AM (#15931 - in reply to #15927)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring



Past PKRA Board Member

Posts: 680
500100252525
Location: phoenix, az
This topic has already come up in the BOD meetings but no ruling yet on it. We see the benefits of the club dictating classes such as SKUSA but we also do not want to alienate other karters that can not convert to these dictated classes. So until such a change we are still a "run what you brung" track, and the best way to field a large grid is to get together with other parents as micros did. BTW this is too what some of the other Rotax parents did prior to being a Rotax class, including myself.

I think we will also see a resurge in TAG karts to prepare for the SKUSA events in 2013, and with that I think the numbers will sustain at least for a little while. WF has proven sustained large grids attract other drivers to the class. We love racing TAG and would never move away from it or sell our leopard, but also recognize that it is super expensive to stay competitive in this class. With rebuilds every 20 hours not many people can stay in this class long term. We also like Rotax which we just had rebuilt for the first time with 85 hours on it, This motor stayed competitive up until the day it was pulled off the kart, in fact it won it's last race. The rebuild for the Rotax was less than the cost to rebuild our leopard at 20 hours. Expensive to get into, yes I agree, but cheap to stay in, and not just stay in, but stay in competitively. You can run your leopard sub 16,000 and also go 85 hours too, but not win too many races like this.

I obviously showed my hand on what we plan on running in 2013, but I too am not trying to influence anyone to any one particular class. Just trying to give correct information. We will run these two classes if we are the only ones out there or theres a grid of 10. Best thing for members to do is talk to each other. Put grievances aside and think of whats best for your childs racing, small or large grids. Everything else will follow suit, club, shops, ect will all benefit from.
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Stewart Willis
Posted 2012-12-23 8:06 AM (#15932 - in reply to #15931)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring





Posts: 437
10010010010025
Location: Anthem, AZ
I would not say that PKRA IS an "IKF Track". They simply use their insurance and rule set.
PKRA has a bit of an identity crisis. Remember, squeeky wheels get the grease.

Once we deal with the tire contract and no longer have to pretend that the Rotax series is not a "PKRA event" to work around the language of the MG tire contract, we can start to make some real substantive progress on policy.

It's my opinion that having two cadet groups is the smartest thing, one for the Micros and Comers, the other for the MiniRok, KPV, MiniMax. Because, I know for a fact that there are a couple Minimaxs intending to run. I think that offering trophies for every class that someone decides to run is silly. You cant give a winning trophy to Comer, KPV, Micro, Yamaha, Minirok...oh and now Minimax
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Chris England
Posted 2012-12-24 1:46 PM (#15936 - in reply to #15925)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring


Past PKRA Vice President

Posts: 259
1001002525
My Bad on the verbage !
PKRA runs under IKF Rules and has predominately run IKF classes.
I agree with the "run what you have" policy and yes WF has proved to be a good class.
I guess there are not many members at this time who also want to run IKF or SKUSA and those who do will anyway.
Happy Holidays to all !
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Bryan Casebolt
Posted 2012-12-28 4:20 PM (#15946 - in reply to #15925)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring


Past PKRA President; PKRA Champion

Posts: 897
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To clarify:
PKRA is an IKF sanctioned kart racing facility. We use IKF insurance on race day. The classes run must be recognized by IKF to be insured. Classes that are not recognized by IKF must receive a waiver from IKF every year when we renew our sanctioning paperwork. If the non-IKF classes don't receive a waiver they will not be insured by IKF and can put the club at a great risk.

The Bondurant Rotax Max Challenge is sanctioned by Rotax Max Challenge United States for national points. Alan Rudolph and the Bondurant Super Kart School are the sponsor, promoter and owner of the Bondurant Rotax Max Challenge. The classes and rules are set by Rotax Max Challenge. To be eligible for champion status drivers must be members of Rotax Max Challenge United States.
PKRA is contracted by Bondurant Rotax Max Challenge to include the Rotax Classes in our race day program. PKRA is a service provider, all decisions as to driver eligibility etc. are made by Alan Rudolph.

Classes sponsored by the Bondurant Rotax Max Challenge are:
Micro-Max
Mini-Max
Jr. Max
Sr. Max
They are all eligible for championship status by request of the sponsor of the series.

For PKRA championship status:
Jr. Comer was probationary last year as approved by the pervious board.
Rookie Sportsman was probationary because of it's status by PKRA rules.
KPV1 was probationary last year as approved by the previous board.
Vortex Mini ROC was given a waiver by IKF for 2012 and was not a championship class. If anyone is planning on running Vortex Mini ROC a waiver will be needed for 2013.

At this point none of the above PKRA classes are eligible for championship status under PKRA rules. The board has discussed naming a recommended class for drivers who are not running in the Bondurant Rotax Max Challenge. The problem is that not everyone owns every motor, by setting a required class some members may be forced to purchase a different motor. If the parents of the drivers running in the rookie classes can build a consensus and have a solid turnout with one specific motor the board will be willing to consider making that class a championship class. The decision as to what classes to mix on race day is made by the Race Director and has no affect on championship status.


I am hopeful a consensus can be reached.
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Bryan Casebolt
Posted 2013-01-02 9:56 AM (#15962 - in reply to #15946)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring


Past PKRA President; PKRA Champion

Posts: 897
500100100100252525
Bryan Casebolt - 2012-12-28 4:20 PM
Rookie Sportsman was probationary because of it's status by PKRA rules.


Correction, Rookie Sportsman was a Championship Class for Spring 2012 and Fall 2012.
Low turnout during the fall 2012 season has made it a probationary championship class for Spring 2013.
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Veerachart Murphy
Posted 2013-01-02 11:47 AM (#15963 - in reply to #15962)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring



Past PKRA Board Member

Posts: 680
500100252525
Location: phoenix, az
I understand how it would appear that the RMC appears to be taking over the club and we are no longer a "IKF" track. Perhaps if we ran RMC on off weekends it would not appear as such and would look the same as when Gatorz or SKUSA rents out the track for the event. Makes much more sense to run it on same weekends to help ensure it's survival. When dealing with SR and Master classes no one would match up against a Motori/Leopard/Rok using a Rotax. There were locals here that wanted to run the Rotax including us but would not match it against these other engines because we would lose, based on how long our straight is. For the Rotax to work here it had to be pitted against other Rotax's. And if the club makes the same amount of money from a RMC driver vs. a "IKF" driver I dont see an issue. I would even go so far to make the argument that without the RMC the club may be in a worse position due to less drivers overall.

We had another series years ago maybe the DKC I can't remember that was set up the same way. Ran the same weekends but you had to pay extra to get the double points. It really doesnt matter how you look at the club, OK call it a RMC track or club and allow IKF classes to race there. Does that make any differance really? Other than now you have HPV and Yamaha running on MOJO's and no one else is in the country is doing that.

I think if we could have a each Rotax class at PKRA and is "IKF" age counterpart also, So members have two options per age grouping that would be best. I think with a good showing in both groups we may attract drivers for both classes.
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Stewart Willis
Posted 2013-01-02 12:08 PM (#15964 - in reply to #15963)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring





Posts: 437
10010010010025
Location: Anthem, AZ
Whether Rotax "takes over" or not is neither here nor there. It is a well marketed program with a reliable engine package. The only problems that I ever had with the program is:
1.) Expensive entry point
2.) Complicated carburetion for beginner
3.) Expensive Parts/components

I do not think that it was a great selection for Club level racing... I think that at the regional and National Level, you know what you are getting... Having said that, I think that the Challenge of The Americas event is a "Must attend" event if you are a Rotax owner. It is why I would enter the Rotax world.

The online poll is not a fair reflection of who has what. For example, if PJ jones or Craig Logsdon answered the questions, their answer would be diluted by the fact that they each have two kids racing MiniRok (tag cadet) next year. Whether they choose to race at PKRA or not I cannot say.
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Veerachart Murphy
Posted 2013-01-02 3:55 PM (#15965 - in reply to #15925)
Subject: Re: Cadet Classes for Spring



Past PKRA Board Member

Posts: 680
500100252525
Location: phoenix, az
Stewart to your points:
1, I agreee
2. I disagree speaking only JR/SR/and masters I think most people use the alttitude rule, very easy to follow, there are also free charts/graphs online for jetting, and maxjet and some others make excellent programs to assist in jetting.
3. I also disagree here. Our Rotax top and bottom rebuild came in at 65% of the cost that we used to spend on our KPV.

Technically speaking the Bondurant RMC is a regional event and not a club class. So without even knowing it club racers are participating in a regional event and getting national exposure for it. Theres was a great article and interview done on Lemon early in the season that I thought was great exposure for Bryan and for PKRA.

Our KPV top was rebuilt every 12-20 hours and bottom 30-40 hours. To stay competitive. Our Rotax went 90 hours before we rebuilt it and it won it's last race. I believe the long term savings this class provides out weighs the high entry point. There is a place for KPV/Yamaha type classes because of their low cost entry points. That will allow potential karters to try karting cheaply. But for me especially on the BOD now, it's not just attracting new karters to the sport but also keeping them long term.



Edited by Veerachart Murphy 2013-01-06 8:11 AM
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